In leaked recording, Amazon CEO Andy Jassy wouldn’t share data for his controversial RTO mandate. Said it was a ‘judgement’ call, like launching AWS.

• Amazon CEO Andy Jassy said the return-to-office mandate was a “judgment” call.
• He compared it to prior decisions not fully driven by data but wildly successful, like launching AWS.
• Jassy said he spoke to roughly 80 CEOs of other companies about remote work.

During an internal fireside chat last week, Amazon CEO Andy Jassy was pressed by an employee to share data supporting his return-to-office mandate, which requires most corporate employees to work three days a week at assigned Amazon offices or leave the company.

Instead of providing data points, Jassy described the company’s contentious return-to-office mandate as a “judgment” call, comparing it to previous major decisions that were not widely supported by data, such as the launch of the Amazon Web Services cloud unit, according to a meeting recording obtained by Insider.

He also cited Amazon’s foray into third-party marketplaces, as well as the decision to ban Powerpoint presentations from company meetings, as examples of decisions that lacked “perfect data” but worked out well. When AWS first launched in 2006, for example, it was an unproven business model with no direct ties to Amazon’s core retail segment.

“When we decided to pursue AWS, which was quite different from the rest of our businesses at the time, there was no data that we were going to be successful.” “In fact, most people thought it was insane, both internally and externally,” Jassy said during the meeting, dubbed a “Fishbowl” internally.

“Those were judgment decisions made by our leadership team,” Jassy continued. “And that is exactly what has occurred here. We’ve decided as a leadership team that being in the office will be better for our customers and our business.”

Jassy’s remarks are the latest in a months-long feud between Amazon employees and the company’s leadership over the company’s aggressive RTO policy.

Amazon told employees last year that it had no plans to bring them back to the office, but that it would “proceed adaptively” with remote work. Then, in February, it announced that most employees would be required to work at least three times per week in the office. Soon after, 30,000 employees petitioned against the RTO mandate, which was formally rejected. As previously reported by Insider, Amazon began requiring employees to relocate near central “hub” offices or take a “voluntary resignation” last month, further infuriating some employees. Some employees are now considering drastic changes to their lives in order to comply, such as living in vans or taking weekly flights.

Amazon declined to issue a statement when asked for one.

Jassy talked to 80 other CEOs about RTO

Jassy shared additional thoughts on the RTO decision during last week’s discussion. He contended that it was “useful to remember” that the initial shift to remote work during the pandemic was also made in the absence of compelling data. Working in the office helps to teach and spread company culture, as well as improve meeting quality, he says.

Amazon’s top leadership examined “a number of pieces of data” on remote work over the last two years, according to Jassy. Though he did not provide specific data, Jassy stated that the leadership team was dissatisfied with the “actual results of our businesses” for a “significant chunk of time” during that time period.

Other company CEOs also assisted Jassy in making his decision. Jassy said he spoke with “60 to 80 CEOs of other companies over the last 18 months,” and “virtually all of them” preferred in-office work.

Many Amazon employees were not amused by Jassy’s remarks. According to screenshots obtained by Insider, an internal Slack channel about remote work quickly filled up with dozens of critical employee reactions soon after Jassy’s interview.

Most people were disappointed by Jassy’s failure to provide clear data on the benefits of in-office work. Although Amazon is known for making key decisions based on data, some employees felt the RTO decision was made arbitrarily.

“The whole answer sounds like he’s defending making decisions without data,” one Slack user wrote.

Some people were upset because Jassy was simply doing what other company CEOs were doing. Long-term innovation, they claim, does not come from “doing exactly the same way they do it,” as one person put it.

“It is not embracing innovation and bold leadership. “It’s following the herd,” said another.

One person shared a price chart of Amazon’s stock, which more than doubled during the pandemic’s first two years, when most employees worked remotely. Another person accused Amazon’s leadership of over-expanding during the pandemic in the mistaken belief that the hypergrowth would last for a long time.

Regardless, Jassy appears set on enforcing the RTO mandate as is. During his speech last week, he encouraged employees to leave the company if they refused to comply.

“The time for disagreeing and committing has passed.” And I understand if you can’t disagree and commit, but it’s probably not going to work out for you at Amazon because we’re going back to the office at least three days a week, and it’s not right for all of our teammates to be in three days a week and for people to refuse to.”